Hi Jon, Mark and Dick

For one of the few times  ;)  I would have to agree with Jon.  Altho I=20
couldnt state
an absolute and utter NO. I would have to say that the possibility=20
of  correlation between
large quakes and CME's is dubious at best, and I think my chances of=20
winning the lottery
stand far higher probability.  I have been studying quakes and solar=20
activity for some 40 years
now.
   If there was a correlation then there should be an obvious increase in=20
seismic activity during
every solar max and a drop off of activity during solar minimum, as CME=20
increase in size and
number then decline.  That just isnt supported by the data.
when you look at seismic activity even over the last 100 - 200 yrs. the=20
rate of large events doesnt
change, regardless of what solar activity is doing.  There is still on avg=
=20
1 x M8+ event / yr and
~ 15 x M7 - 7.9 events/ yr.
During the Maunder Minimum, the period roughly spanning 1645 to 1715 when=20
sunspots and
therefore CME's were next to non existant the world was still shaken by=20
many huge and or
damaging quakes  eg.....

1106 1638                               St. Lawrence Valley region.=20
US-Canada Bdr
1202    1645                            Quito, Ecuador,
1305    1647                            Santiago, Chile, 1,000 Dths
         1662                            Anhwei, China, 300,000 Dths
0502    1663    2230UT  7.0             St. Lawrence River, Canada, damage,=
=20
MMI X
1205    1664               7.3          Ica, Peru, Fatalities 400
NOV     1667                            Shemakha, Caucasia, 80,000 Dths
1708    1668               8.0          Anatolia, Turkey,  8,000 Dths
1701    1670                            Cntrl Europe
0406    1679                            Caucasia
2010    1687               8.5          Lima, Peru,  600 Dths
0706    1692                            Jamaica, Fatalities 2000 from quake=
=20
and tsunami
1101    1693              7.5           Sicily-Italy area, ~60,000 Deaths
2601    1700            ~9              Cascadia Subduction Zone offshr=20
Oregon, USA, Maj
                                         tsunami crossed the Pacific and=20
did damage in Japan
3112    1703                            Tokyo-Odowara area, Japan, >5,000=20
Deaths
MY or JN 1710                   Algiers
0302    1716                            Medea, Algeria,  20,000 Dths


During 1989 which was one of the stronger solar max's of recent times with=
=20
the largest X class flares
ever recorded a couple > X20  there was still only 1 x M8+ that year  the=20
M8.2 of Macquarie Island
(an aside ... that was the first M8 I recorded on my gear, I lived ~900km=20
to the nth)
1989 saw only 4 x M7 - 7.9 events  a very quiet year for big quakes !!!
  Lets take into account a little time lag between CME's hitting earth and=
=20
seismic activity occurring
1990 was an even quieter year with no events hitting M8 and about the same=
=20
# of M7's as 1989

BUT... We mustn't forget you are purporting INSTANT effects as you were=20
blaming the recent 2-3 weeks
of solar activity for a immediate big event!!!!   ....  sorry it just=20
doesnt wash

These CME's and flares of the last few weeks have been tiny in comparison=20
to the big stuff,  the sun only
"clearing its throat"

cheers
Dave


At 06:23 PM 13/03/2011, you wrote:
>Hi Mark,
>
>Given the number of earthquakes / number of solar flares there is no
>correlation at all. Most of the years 2007 to 2011 there where few to
>none sun spots and even fewer solar flares. That I know because I
>monitor the sunspots also for solar flares. You even have longer period
>in history known as little ice age where there was few to none sun
>spots, even in that period a large earthquakes are known to have
>happened.
>
>This study does not keep up with the facts in this matter. That is a
>fact. In fact, I also see that this study is full of errors, flaws and
>wrong assumsions. It only provies sunspots =3D earthquakes but does not
>give a time scale for it and with that removes the data that proves that
>this study is in fact wrong.
>
>Regards,
>J=F3n Fr=EDmann.
>
>On sun, 2011-03-13 at 19:33 +1300, Mark Robinson wrote:
> > J=F3n,
> >
> > http://arxiv.org/pdf/cond-mat/0602208 indicates that solar flares and
> > earthquakes share very similar distributions but does not examine=20
> correlation
> > between the two.
> >
> > It is easy to theorise that solar flares, which have a large magnetic
> > component, impacting on earth could disturb the big magnet in the=
 middle.
> > Remember that aurora happen at the poles. The deeper an earthquake the=
=20
> lower
> > the frequencies that we see on the surface. Without doing any formal=20
> analysis,
> > my own observation is that eigenmode activity often precedes large=20
> quakes, as
> > it did in the case of the Japanese event. Similarly impacts of CMEs=
 often
> > precede eigenmode activity.
> >
> > Dismissing scientific curiosity out of hand does you no credit, perhaps=
=20
> you
> > could cite some references for your arguments. Some reasoning might be=
=20
> nice too
> > especially as I seem to remember you yourself saying many similar=20
> things here
> > over the years.
> >
> > The position that "earthquakes can't be predicted therefore anyone who=
=20
> wishes
> > to explore the possibility is nuts" is closer to religion than science.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > On 13/03/11 18:48, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > The answer is still no.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann.
> > >
> > > On lau, 2011-03-12 at 21:41 -0800, Dick Habegger wrote:
> > >> Thank you for your reply, Jon. I value your comments.
> > >>
> > >> However, USGS spent many years in denial that there was a=
 relationship
> > >> to earthquakes on the opposite sides of the Earth.
> > >> We, in our HAM Seismic Precursor Net decided that there was a=20
> relationship.
> > >> Now, Kate Hutton, et al, at JPL have expressed this relationship.
> > >> Also, they are warning of a major Earthquake in the California=
 region.
> > >> This is a departure of previous comments and answers to questions.
> > >> My discussions with Waverly Pearson at Golden, had other similar
> > >> comments; especially with the New Madrid Fault.
> > >>
> > >> Also, Jim Berkland was ridiculed with his Dog and Cat Reports=
 (missing
> > >> in want-ads).
> > >> And, his idea of Full/New Moon stress triggering stress lines.
> > >> Now, these are discussed in many quarters and countries.
> > >>
> > >> Therefore, I suggest more thought and study with CME's.
> > >> Why is do both happen  I am a believer that there is nothing as
> > >> "coincidence". Only the rules have not been developed yet.
> > >> I will leave it at that point since I am far below the talents of=
 this
> > >> group.
> > >> Just think, the island of Japan moved 8 feet! Try that at home,=
 folks!
> > >>
> > >> Dick Habegger
> > >> Phelan, CA
> > >>
> > >> On 3/12/2011 8:12 PM, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote:
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> The answer is no.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>> J=F3n Fr=EDmann.
> > >>>
> > >>> On lau, 2011-03-12 at 20:07 -0800, Dick Habegger wrote:
> > >>>>> AURORAS IN THE USA:  A coronal mass ejection (CME) hit Earth's
> > >>>>> magnetic field on March 10th.  The impact set off a G1-class
> > >>>>> geomagnetic storm and sent Northern Lights rippling over the
> > >>>>> US-Canadian border into states such as Wisconsin, Minnesota, and
> > >>>>> Michigan. Sky watchers who hadn't seen auroras in years captured
> > >>>>> beautiful photos of green and purple streamers.  This is another=
 sign
> > >>>>> that Solar Cycle 24 is heating up.  Checkhttp://spaceweather.com =
 for
> > >>>>> photos and updates.
> > >>>> I have been receiving reports from spaceweather.com that the Sun=
 has
> > >>>> been having major sunspot activity lately. The same period has seen
> > >>>> major earthquakes on Earth. Is there a correlation between the=
 events?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Dick Habegger
> > >>>> Phelan, CA
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> >
> > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
> >
> > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with
> > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
> > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
>
>
>__________________________________________________________
>
>Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
>
>To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with
>the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
>See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Hi Jon, Mark and Dick


For one of the few times  ;)  I would have to agree with
Jon.  Altho I couldnt state 

an absolute and utter NO. I would have to say that the possibility
of  correlation between 

large quakes and CME's is dubious at best, and I think my chances of
winning the lottery 

stand far higher probability.  I have been studying quakes and solar
activity for some 40 years 

now. 

  If there was a correlation then there should be an obvious
increase in seismic activity during 

every solar max and a drop off of activity during solar minimum, as CME
increase in size and 

number then decline.  That just isnt supported by the data.

when you look at seismic activity even over the last 100 - 200 yrs. the
rate of large events doesnt 

change, regardless of what solar activity is doing.  There is still
on avg 1 x M8+ event / yr and 

~ 15 x M7 - 7.9 events/ yr. 

During the Maunder Minimum, the period roughly spanning 1645 to 1715 when
sunspots and 

therefore CME's were next to non existant the world was still shaken by
many huge and or

damaging quakes  eg.....


1106
1638        &n=
bsp;         &nb=
sp;         &nbs=
p;  St.
Lawrence Valley region. US-Canada Bdr

1202    1645   =
                  =
;       Quito,
Ecuador, 

1305    1647   &nbs=
p;                 &nb=
sp;      Santiago,
Chile, 1,000 Dths   

        1662&n=
bsp;         &nb=
sp;                 Anhwei,
China, 300,000 Dths  

0502    1663   &=
nbsp;2230UT 
7.0        &nb=
sp;    St.
Lawrence River, Canada, damage, MMI X

1205    1664   &nbs=
p;
         
7.3        &nb=
sp; Ica,
Peru, Fatalities 400

NOV     1667   =
;                 &nbs=
p;       Shemakha,
Caucasia, 80,000 Dths

1708    1668   &nbs=
p; 
        
8.0        &nb=
sp; Anatolia,
Turkey,  8,000 Dths

1701    1670   =
                  =
;       Cntrl
Europe

0406    1679   &nbs=
p;                 &nb=
sp;      Caucasia

2010    1687   &=
nbsp;        =
  
8.5        &nb=
sp; Lima,
Peru,  600 Dths

0706    1692   &nbs=
p;                 &nb=
sp;      Jamaica,
Fatalities 2000 from quake and tsunami

1101    1693   &nbs=
p;        &nb=
sp;
7.5    
      Sicily-Italy area,
~60,000 Deaths

2601    1700   &nbs=
p;        ~9<=
x-tab>         &=
nbsp;    Cascadia
Subduction Zone offshr Oregon, USA, Maj 

         =
          &=
nbsp;         &n=
bsp;         &nb=
sp;tsunami
crossed the Pacific and did damage in Japan

3112    1703   =
                  =
;       Tokyo-Odowara
area, Japan, >5,000 Deaths

MY or JN
1710        &n=
bsp;         &nb=
sp;Algiers

0302    1716   &nbs=
p;                 &nb=
sp;      Medea,
Algeria,  20,000 Dths  




During 1989 which was one of the stronger solar max's of recent
times with the largest X class flares 

ever recorded a couple > X20  there was still only 1 x M8+ that
year  the M8.2 of Macquarie Island

(an aside ... that was the first M8 I recorded on my gear, I lived ~900km
to the nth)

1989 saw only 4 x M7 - 7.9 events  a very quiet year for big quakes
!!!

 Lets take into account a little time lag between CME's hitting
earth and seismic activity occurring

1990 was an even quieter year with no events hitting M8 and about the
same # of M7's as 1989


BUT... We mustn't forget you are purporting INSTANT effects as you were
blaming the recent 2-3 weeks 

of solar activity for a immediate big event!!!!   .... 
sorry it just doesnt wash


These CME's and flares of the last few weeks have been tiny in comparison
to the big stuff,  the sun only 

"clearing its throat" 


cheers

Dave




At 06:23 PM 13/03/2011, you wrote:

Hi Mark,


Given the number of earthquakes / number of solar flares there is=20
no

correlation at all. Most of the years 2007 to 2011 there where few
to

none sun spots and even fewer solar flares. That I know because I

monitor the sunspots also for solar flares. You even have longer
period

in history known as little ice age where there was few to none sun

spots, even in that period a large earthquakes are known to have

happened.


This study does not keep up with the facts in this matter. That is=20
a

fact. In fact, I also see that this study is full of errors, flaws
and

wrong assumsions. It only provies sunspots =3D earthquakes but does
not

give a time scale for it and with that removes the data that proves
that

this study is in fact wrong.


Regards,

J=F3n Fr=EDmann. 


On sun, 2011-03-13 at 19:33 +1300, Mark Robinson wrote:

> J=F3n,

> 

>
http://=
arxiv.org/pdf/cond-mat/0602208
indicates that solar flares and 

> earthquakes share very similar distributions but does not examine=
 correlation 

> between the two.

> 

> It is easy to theorise that solar flares, which have a large magnetic=
 

> component, impacting on earth could disturb the big magnet in the=
 middle. 

> Remember that aurora happen at the poles. The deeper an earthquake the=
 lower 

> the frequencies that we see on the surface. Without doing any formal=
 analysis, 

> my own observation is that eigenmode activity often precedes large=
 quakes, as 

> it did in the case of the Japanese event. Similarly impacts of CMEs=
 often 

> precede eigenmode activity.

> 

> Dismissing scientific curiosity out of hand does you no credit, perhaps=
 you 

> could cite some references for your arguments. Some reasoning might be=
 nice too 

> especially as I seem to remember you yourself saying many similar=
 things here 

> over the years.

> 

> The position that "earthquakes can't be predicted therefore anyone=
 who wishes 

> to explore the possibility is nuts" is closer to religion than=
 science.

> 

> Mark

> 

> 

> On 13/03/11 18:48, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote:

> > Hi,

> >

> > The answer is still no.

> >

> > Regards,

> > J=F3n Fr=EDmann.

> >

> > On lau, 2011-03-12 at 21:41 -0800, Dick Habegger wrote:

> >> Thank you for your reply, Jon. I value your comments.

> >>

> >> However, USGS spent many years in denial that there was a=
 relationship

> >> to earthquakes on the opposite sides of the Earth.

> >> We, in our HAM Seismic Precursor Net decided that there was a=
 relationship.

> >> Now, Kate Hutton, et al, at JPL have expressed this=
 relationship.

> >> Also, they are warning of a major Earthquake in the California=
 region.

> >> This is a departure of previous comments and answers to=
 questions.

> >> My discussions with Waverly Pearson at Golden, had other=
 similar

> >> comments; especially with the New Madrid Fault.

> >>

> >> Also, Jim Berkland was ridiculed with his Dog and Cat Reports=
 (missing

> >> in want-ads).

> >> And, his idea of Full/New Moon stress triggering stress=
 lines.

> >> Now, these are discussed in many quarters and countries.

> >>

> >> Therefore, I suggest more thought and study with CME's.

> >> Why is do both happen  I am a believer that there is=
 nothing as

> >> "coincidence". Only the rules have not been=
 developed yet.

> >> I will leave it at that point since I am far below the talents=
 of this

> >> group.

> >> Just think, the island of Japan moved 8 feet! Try that at=
 home, folks!

> >>

> >> Dick Habegger

> >> Phelan, CA

> >>

> >> On 3/12/2011 8:12 PM, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote:

> >>> Hi,

> >>>

> >>> The answer is no.

> >>>

> >>> Regards,

> >>> J=F3n Fr=EDmann.

> >>>

> >>> On lau, 2011-03-12 at 20:07 -0800, Dick Habegger=
 wrote:

> >>>>> AURORAS IN THE USA:  A coronal mass ejection=
 (CME) hit Earth's

> >>>>> magnetic field on March 10th.  The impact set=
 off a G1-class

> >>>>> geomagnetic storm and sent Northern Lights=
 rippling over the

> >>>>> US-Canadian border into states such as Wisconsin,=
 Minnesota, and

> >>>>> Michigan. Sky watchers who hadn't seen auroras in=
 years captured

> >>>>> beautiful photos of green and purple=
 streamers.  This is another sign

> >>>>> that Solar Cycle 24 is heating up. =
 Checkhttp://spaceweather.com  for

> >>>>> photos and updates.

> >>>> I have been receiving reports from spaceweather.com=
 that the Sun has

> >>>> been having major sunspot activity lately. The same=
 period has seen

> >>>> major earthquakes on Earth. Is there a correlation=
 between the events?

> >>>>

> >>>> Dick Habegger

> >>>> Phelan, CA

> 

> __________________________________________________________

> 

> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

> 

> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with 

> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe

> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more=
 information.




__________________________________________________________


Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)


To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with 

the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe

See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more inf=
ormation.