Geoff,
I have to strongly disagree with you.This following is a bit off the
normal PSN discussion, but of such concern to me, that I feel I have to
respond.
I love studying first principles of technology -- such as the problem of
restoring technology from scratch on a desert isle.That having been
said, today there are numerous groups doing fantastic things at an
amateur level.Take your own example of the electron microscope.There are
some amateurs that have made just that -- electron microscopes.Below are
just a few additional projects that illustrate all the wealth of amateur
exploration of technology:
1) Quality lathes that can be replicated in 3rd world countries from
scrap and concrete.See multimachine@...............
2) Farnsworth fusion reactors
3) 3-D printers
4) CNC machines of various complexities and accuracies.
5) Radio amateurs doing earth/moon (moon bounce) radio communication and
satellite communication through their own designed and constructed
satellites. Others are doing laser communication over multi-kilometer
distances
6) Seismographs of professional level sensitivity including those of
Randall Peters that started this particular discussion.PSN has acted as
a wonderful focus point for all sorts of projects centered around the
problem of sensing internal earth's motions.
All of the above replicate at an amateur level things that didn't exist
100 years ago.And then there's the problem -- what exactly is an
amateur?It would seem your definition is he/she is incompetent.I would
argue that an amateur is just someone who doesn't make his living in the
area that he is exploring/playing with and even that is begging the
question a bit.What about the person who just loves his job so much that
he goes home and does more of it? The incredible analog electronics
designer, Jim Williams fit this definition to a tee.Obviously the
examples above are accomplished by very competent people -- but they're
doing it for the fun of it with perhaps a serious end goal in mind.The
first example of the multimachine has a serious end goal.Many of the
amateur seismologists enjoy their "hobby", but some surely hope that the
science progresses and leads to better instruments and understanding of
the earth around them.Again, a serious end goal is the Dave Nelson/Angel
collaboration on vertical instruments of "professional" quality.
Who knows when a hobby idea fertilizes a solution to a problem at work
that leads to a change that raises the level of understanding.Einstein
wasn't working as a physicist, but rather as a patent examiner, when he
came up with the theory of relativity and his Nobel prize winning paper
on photoelectricity.So by definition he was a amateur.Amateurs can
change the world.
I'll be the first to admit that the amateur construction of many of the
examples above is facilitated by the runoff of ideas and technology as
the lake of high technologyrises around us.But, making use of discarded
equipment and new ideas isn't stupid -- look at it as being "Green"!And
in my mind, the Gutenberg press invention of the modern world is the
World Wide Web, whereby we all can collaborate on wondrous technology in
our own ways.So sticking to coils and magnets is OK if that is what you
want, but decrying an amateur striking out along a new trail in a search
for hidden treasure, is being a bit Luddite in my opinion.The
breakthroughs come with new ideas,many of which may not lead anywhere,
but, oh the satisfaction and glory when one pans out!And if the amateur
is doing it for the pure sport, then the journey was enjoyable, too.
Regards,
Charles R. Patton
On 7/11/2012 7:17 AM, Geoff wrote:
> I read all your meandering thoughts on whatever
> and wonder why get lost in looking at trees
> when its the overall forest that really matters.
>
> Why not simply experiment in creating a new
> geophone or whatever and simply keep what
> is proven to work and throw away the remainder.
>
> We are amateurs here not theoretical physicist.
>
> I see a possibility you can hoover a magnetic
> whatever and if the angles and dangles are correct
> you may be able to achieve a horizontal floating
> free period of 20 seconds, even 10 would be acceptable.
> All within a very small area, yet it would require
> equipment to build beyond the abilities of most
> all amateurs.
>
> Then you need to somehow sense the relative
> motion of the hoovering mass against its
> supporting base.
>
> It all sounds so easy in the mind but to
> put it to reality will require a manhatten
> project of instrumentation to carry out.
>
> Good luck you eggheads !
>
> Has anyone ever seen an electron microscope
> which can measure the separation between
> a mass on a spring and the base ?
> But what amateur could ever afford such
> a thing who is not "Bill Gates" himself ?
>
> I think we should just stick with coils and magnets
> till the industrial peoples come up with
> a new circuit on a microchip.
>
> I have been redoing my OS the past several days
> after loosing my Amazon instant movie DRM.
> from this I have learned once you buy DRM stuff
> do not make any system wide changes in NTFS security
> settings or play with services you do not fully
> understand. catching up on PSN reading is generally
> fun after being away for awhile.
> Your attention to complex detail, can sometimes be amusing.
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
> geoff
> __________________________________________________________
>
> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
>
> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body
> of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Geoff,
I have to strongly
disagree with you. This
following is a
bit off the normal PSN discussion, but of such concern to me,
that I feel I
have to respond.
I love studying first
principles of technology -- such as the problem of restoring
technology from
scratch on a desert isle. That
having
been said, today there are numerous groups doing fantastic
things at an amateur
level. Take your own
example of the
electron microscope. There
are some
amateurs that have made just that -- electron microscopes. Below are just a few
additional projects
that illustrate all the wealth of amateur exploration of
technology:
1) Quality lathes
that can be replicated in 3rd world countries from scrap and
concrete. See
multimachine@...............
2) Farnsworth fusion
reactors
3) 3-D printers
4) CNC machines of
various complexities and accuracies.
5) Radio amateurs
doing earth/moon (moon bounce) radio communication and
satellite communication
through their own designed and constructed satellites. Others
are doing laser
communication over multi-kilometer distances
6) Seismographs of
professional level sensitivity including those of Randall
Peters that started
this particular discussion. PSN
has
acted as a wonderful focus point for all sorts of projects
centered around the problem
of sensing internal earth's motions.
All of the above
replicate at an amateur level things that didn't exist 100
years ago. And then
there's the problem -- what exactly
is an amateur? It
would seem your
definition is he/she is incompetent. I would
argue that an amateur is just someone who doesn't make his
living in the area
that he is exploring/playing with and even that is begging the
question a
bit. What about the
person who just
loves his job so much that he goes home and does more of it? The incredible analog
electronics designer,
Jim Williams fit this definition to a tee.
Obviously the examples above are accomplished by very
competent people
-- but they're doing it for the fun of it with perhaps a
serious end goal in
mind. The first
example of the
multimachine has a serious end goal.
Many of the amateur seismologists enjoy their "hobby",
but
some surely hope that the science progresses and leads to
better instruments
and understanding of the earth around them.
Again, a serious end goal is the Dave Nelson/Angel
collaboration on
vertical instruments of "professional" quality.
Who knows when a
hobby idea fertilizes a solution to a problem at work that
leads to a change
that raises the level of understanding.
Einstein wasn't working as a physicist, but rather as a
patent examiner,
when he came up with the theory of relativity and his Nobel
prize winning paper
on photoelectricity. So
by definition
he was a amateur. Amateurs
can change
the world.
I'll be the first to
admit that the amateur construction of many of the examples
above is
facilitated by the runoff of ideas and technology as the lake
of high
technology rises
around us. But,
making use of discarded equipment and
new ideas isn't stupid -- look at it as being "Green"! And in my mind, the
Gutenberg press
invention of the modern world is the World Wide Web, whereby
we all can
collaborate on wondrous technology in our own ways. So sticking to coils and magnets is OK if
that is what you want,
but decrying an amateur striking out along a new trail in a
search for hidden
treasure, is being a bit Luddite in my opinion. The breakthroughs come with new ideas, many of which may not lead anywhere, but, oh
the satisfaction and
glory when one pans out! And
if the
amateur is doing it for the pure sport, then the journey was
enjoyable, too.
Regards,
Charles R. Patton
On 7/11/2012 7:17 AM, Geoff wrote:
I read
all your meandering thoughts on whatever
and wonder why get lost in looking at trees
when its the overall forest that really matters.
Why not simply experiment in creating a new
geophone or whatever and simply keep what
is proven to work and throw away the remainder.
We are amateurs here not theoretical physicist.
I see a possibility you can hoover a magnetic
whatever and if the angles and dangles are correct
you may be able to achieve a horizontal floating
free period of 20 seconds, even 10 would be acceptable.
All within a very small area, yet it would require
equipment to build beyond the abilities of most
all amateurs.
Then you need to somehow sense the relative
motion of the hoovering mass against its
supporting base.
It all sounds so easy in the mind but to
put it to reality will require a manhatten
project of instrumentation to carry out.
Good luck you eggheads !
Has anyone ever seen an electron microscope
which can measure the separation between
a mass on a spring and the base ?
But what amateur could ever afford such
a thing who is not "Bill Gates" himself ?
I think we should just stick with coils and magnets
till the industrial peoples come up with
a new circuit on a microchip.
I have been redoing my OS the past several days
after loosing my Amazon instant movie DRM.
from this I have learned once you buy DRM stuff
do not make any system wide changes in NTFS security
settings or play with services you do not fully
understand. catching up on PSN reading is generally
fun after being away for awhile.
Your attention to complex detail, can sometimes be amusing.
Regards,
geoff
__________________________________________________________
Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the
body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.